Carnitine, Choline, Cancer and Cholesterol: The TMAO Connection

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  • people are vegan for ethical reasons and then they get a built in bias, a desire to see. I don't know about carnitine. it would be a full time job with zero bias or an objective mind to just sort out all the facts and conclusions, and then still have to determine materiality and form an overall opinion on diet. it would probably be this: eat whole foods, mostly organic. macros may matter to an extent but also there's much wiggle room. carbs essential for athletes, fat is not evil, extra protein for bodybuilders, powerlifters. veggies good, fruit good too. a little meat can't hurt, and is a great safety net because we evolved on meat and things like creative and carnitine in it may be responsible for meat gains. there are a lot of products out there, and variety, today, to be able to eat how you choose. avoid soy for phytoestrogens, flavonoids, eat less to lose weight, avoid fructose, HFCS. eat fiber and whole foods, be active- distance running optional. alcohol in moderation tops. I'm no Muslim but since I started lifting I don't crave it. it is a poison, to be technical, and something I have enjoyed KB my past but not hangovers.

  • the fact is if this guy can keep all of the eggs and red meat and all the bad saturated fats and choline out of you if he can keep you fat and sick and purchasing plenty of medicine and coming to plenty of doctors visits for himself and his fellow doctors they don't want you healthy are you can't buy meds and you won't show up to their office

  • What about all the nootropic supplements with CDP Choline as a staple of the stack, touted to improve memory and cognitive function, among greater liver health?

  • Choline is present in cancer cells because the body uses choline to combat the cancer.  True?  No reason  to believe that, but how much more reason to believe that choline is causative?  Or that TMAO is causative in humans?  Maybe lotsa reason, don't know 'cause I haven't seen the research basis for any of these assumptions but I look forward to exploring this.  Good to have preliminary evidence like the doc's video though!

  • Dr. Greger's research into research goes beyond the blind leading the blind. Having worked in four natural food stores, and even having sold supplements, it's clear that people work hard and take pleasure in paying for products that mark their fate. Eternal life? Better try Genesis 1:29 to enjoy a little bit more of the eternal moment of now… though there are always Trump steaks.

  • Hang on Dr Greiger, lets avoid junk and saturated fats but eggs too? I have fatty liver and cholesterolosis and so Im worried about this issue, I yoyo between eating eggs daily and no eggs at all, choline is supposed to be good for the liver in helping export fat out of the liver, we aren't all the same, some have sluggish phase II detox (I have Gilberts too) for example, choline deficient diets have been linked to fatty liver disease.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601486/
    This study suggests that choline deficiency is dangerous to the liver, so whats the score? Its a tough one for me, I tried keto and couldn't handle it, did the Mcdougal diet and it was ok but worried about all those carbs converting to glucose in my liver, another vegan approach would be to go vegan with limited fat or oil, good fats like flax seed, vitamin E, D3, and egg yolks (Choline), but you get two camps one aying no oil and the other saying lots of oil, I believe keto for example may be good for seizures and losing weight but for some diseases may not be a good idea (such as fatty liver and cholesterolosis), from what I understand one the one hand the low fat high carb diet would help fatty liver cause you ingest very little fat and so fat stored withing the liver is burnt up as fuel but I don't understand this if carbs convert to fat in the liver (or possibly they convert to fat IF you eat carbs along with fat, hence the no/low fat diet??) But what if the liver is genetically predisposed to export fat slowly from the liver as in my case (Gilberts syndrome) where if Im not mistaken detox phase II is sluggish? The you have a sluggish liver exporting fat slowly out of the liver and this is where choline comes into play – it helps to export fat out of the liver, I suppose I could use herbs like Milk Thistle which protects liver cells and bitter veggies that help create bile like artichoke/cruciferous veg etc, but then the bile arrives in my gallbladder for storage and this is where I have a second problem (probably part of the first, all one problem I mean) where cholesterol/sludge has bult up and ended up having polyps of cholesterol on the inside wall of the gallbladder, but here fat is supposed to help cause the gallbladder in response to ingestion of fat then squeezes its contents (bile/cholesterol I assume) to emulsify dietary fat and this is the cycle.
    If I eat a mainly low fat and high carb diet I worry that I'll get fatter, and most importantly even if I ingest zero fat or very low fat that my gallblader will get clogged up with cholesterol cause the body makes cholesterol daily anyway (unless there are other ways to make the gallbladder squeeze out bile etc and stop it from getting clogged up, I mean a vegan approach or taking some herbs)
    Or if I take the fat route then, I can see how choline intake helps export fat out of the liver, fat also triggers the gallbladder to squueze out its contents and keeps the process flowing, Im not saying I would do Keto (75% fat diet) I only want to add eggs for their choline content, and some good fats like flax seed oil or olive oil to squeeze the gallbladder and keep it 'flowing'.
    Im at a bind as Ive done both routes, low fat high carb, high fat low carb, vegan also and paleo, I think Im beggining to realise one needs to tailor a diet for their own particular goals/disease etc.

  • what kind of diet should cancer patients have then? if consumption of choline ultimately causes the cancer to spread, then you shouldn't have a diet high in protein and fat (ketogenic diet) because most of your food is going to be meat and eggs, and one would think that would be the best diet to cut off cancer cell's food source, glucose, to starve them to death. Would these negative effects of carnitine and choline even matter if there's no food source (glucose) for cancer cells to grow (on a ketogenic diet)? more research is needed

  • so u take carnitine supplements with every meal. I have a deficiency …what do you say about that ? I am taking it to avoid heart disease… what do you suggest ? am I harming myself or helping ?

  • What about Acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR) which crosses the blood brain barrier and is essential for acetylcholine production? And also what about citicoline (cognizin) which is also essential for acetylcholine production? Are they safe to supplement?

  • There are way more studies showing benefits of carnitine. I'll look at the research though, but you have zero credibility, your analysis is worthless.

  • Your gut biome controls your health. YOU control the health of your gut biome by WHAT you FEED it. It's really that simple.

    One of the most important substances for a healthy gut is FIBER. BUT fiber is the MOST deficient substance in the Western Diet. (SAD). 90% or more of Americans are fiber-deficient by the Gov't standards and the Gov't standards are extremely low relative to what our ancestors ate. Paleo was a plant eater, mostly (according to the fossil record, not the fad book). Be responsible for yourself, eat fiber-it's all around us.

  • Can't stand studies that use percentages… how stating the raw data. If you have a population of 10,000 in a study, and 2 test group participates get cancer as a result of eating eggs vs. 1 person in the control group… hell that's a 50% increase in incidence. Stop eating eggs. I never give any credibility to studies that use percentages.

  • He fails to mention the known benefits of choline. It is considered essential, and deficiency has side effects! Choline benefits the brain, cell structure, nervous system, muscles, and yes, the heart. Like all other things, simply do not go overboard, as this can be harmful in any case (for example, too much vitamin A can harm the system).

  • Vegans are not immortal against disease and death, there is no perfect food .Vegans are prone to Iron deficiency anemia , nothing wrong with eating healthy I do too but I do eat fish and chicken ,beans , tomatoes and avoid high carbs. Even so people forget we are here on earth only temporary ,everyone thinks they will live on forever or to 100 or 120 years of age , it will not happen ,you cannot deny it or avoid it you must accept it . If anyone lost a close family member you know what I am talking about , sometimes that is what it takes to wake you up to reality. My father died December 19, 2017 and it devastated me and still does and always will . A part of me died too that day , realizing my own mortality and what matters on earth and what does not . All this anger , hate , greed and politics does not matter in life who cares not me not anymore , materialism of things mean nothing to me neither does making a lot of money I do not care. No matter what you eat you and I will die too , sooner or later that is the future for you and me no avoiding it , it is a guarantee nobody wants death the final frontier for all forever.

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